The Paleo View

TPV Podcast, Episode 49: Paleo Philosophy – Part 2

Our forty-ninth show!
Ep. 49: Paleo Philosophy – Part 2

In this episode, Stacy and Sarah tackle part-two of the Paleo Philosophy series, discussing Sally Fallon’s article and the controversial areas within the paleo diet: fat, dairy and sugar. But first, an open letter from Stacy.

To listen to part-one of the series, check out episode 48.

Bear with me, this is going to be long but I just can’t keep quiet anymore.

Last year my family, along with our near-family member Aimee (the infamous photographer), visited Sally’s farm.  It was at this time that I learned Sally was anti-paleo. Yes, I mean anti-paleo. Not just pro-WAPF, but actively frustrated and wanting to disassociate from the movement and word paleo. This was further confirmed with personal correspondence I exchanged with Sally earlier this year regarding input for Beyond Bacon, in which she is both pictured and quoted.

Our visit with Sally one-on-one was wonderful. I don’t want to discount that. I have the utmost respect for the work that the WAPF foundation does and her personal passion for farming. I enjoyed spending time and learning about how Sally runs her sustainable farm just about an hour from my home. During this visit, she picked up my children and commented on how solid their structure was and how healthy they looked, even saying as she lifted my oldest “Oh, this must be a raw milk child!”  I didn’t have the heart to tell her he’s casein-free because otherwise he wets the bed and misbehaves in school.

So believe me when I tell you that I’ve given a lot of thought to what I’m about to share and how I’m about to say it. Since recording this podcast nearly a week ago quite a lot has transpired that most of our readers wouldn’t know without my sharing. And I think it’s imperative it is shared so that we are all on the same page about the intentions of the Wise Tradition article that this podcast references.

Dear WAPF, Your Leader is Ignorant

Ignorant: (a): destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> (b) : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

Over the course of last year I have had several exchanges with your leader, Sally Fallon Morell. While my personal face-to-face interactions with Sally were nothing less than pleasant, I am dumfounded and insulted at the apparent misinformation, judgement and fallacies being spread about the lifestyle through online forums and publications. Perhaps someone within your organization could help her become better educated when writing these pieces?

As you are probably aware, paleo is a movement which is taking off. Not that it matters, but personally, I believe that’s because of the success people have following it. Part of the success surely has to do with some of the similarities between what paleo leaders and the WAPF have in common. For example, Diane Sanfilippo, whose book, Practical Paleo, has sold more copies than any other paleo resource available and is considered the quintessential guide to all things paleo, references WAPF, fermented foods, bone broth and organ meats as well as the importance of nutrient density, fat soluble vitamins, digestion, and animal fats. She specifically cites grass-fed butter, ghee, lard, tallow as well as coconut oil which are the easiest for our bodies to digest and cause the least amount of inflammation (the true tenant of the paleo diet, a low-inflammation diet).

WAPFvsPaleo on PaleoParents

You might be thinking right now, “OH! I didn’t know that! We’ll just share this with Sally and everybody can play nice in the sandbox again!” But unfortunately you would be wrong.

Sally knows all this. And I know that Sally knows all this because I have personally witnessed several different people (including myself) exchange e-mails with her whereby she disregards this information in favor of seeing things from her own perspective. After all, Chris Masterjohn and Chris Kresser speak at the annual WT conference! Yet, she has personally told me she does not want to be associated with paleo, which I would think could do wonders for helping to educate our own community on the things which she believes we do not believe in or promote.

I would love to share the personal e-mail exchanges and quote Sally for you, but there’s no need for me to be disrespectful and share a personal conversation. But if you read this blog you know me to be honest and open in all that I do here, so I will paraphrase:

Sally (paraphrased): I know there are many variations of this diet, but the common approach of lots of lean meat and no dairy is a very dangerous diet. Fatty meats, raw milk products and traditionally prepared grains are great foods for growing children.

Stacy (quote): I’m sad to hear that’s your perception of paleo, as I think it’s less than a 10% minority that believes that and WAPF and paleo/Primal/ancestral eating have become good “sister” groups attending one another’s conferences. Obviously we feel that way, since our book is pro-saturated fat and uses lard, stock and organ meats in almost every recipe!

Sally (paraphrased): When one of our leaders attended a paleo conference, she said the meals were lean meat and vegetables served without fat. So, while I know that you endorse fat, this is not what is happening in the greater paleo community.

As an organization, I would hope that you would not base your beliefs of an entire community’s lifestyle off of food that was served at a conference After all, I’ve heard that the food served at the Wise Tradition conference is sparing and left people hungry, but I would never think that was the overall intent of a WAPF-approach to eating. And, for a point of clarification, the specific conference mentioned also had many paleo attendees complain; resultantly, the following year food was not provided and instead the local BBQ stand ran out of fatty pulled pork and brisket while Whole Foods was attacked for fermented foods because that’s what attendees ate every day.

This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of this specific leader create drama, either. The specific leader also said using the WAPF formula for babies is better than breastmilk unless the mother herself is following a traditional diet. I’ve also has a personal experience with her whereby my copyrighted materials were used without permission despite accusations that she herself was plagiarized.

As an overall organization publishing articles like the one in Wide Traditions, I can’t just pinpoint this on one or two people, however. Even though Sally herself wrote the article and the other leader may have created the drama on purpose, it was the foundation as a whole that published it. Several contributors and editors must have had their hand in putting it out to the members and general audience. So my question, and those a lot of us in the community are wondering, is why? Why when we are so closely aligned and share some of the same intellectual resources, both closely tied to wholefoods and an ancestrally based approach, why would the WAPF be motivated to publish a factually incorrect and insulting column?

This is the question I’ve been pondering all week. The question that made me think maybe Sally and others are simply ignorant to our actual beliefs as a community. Maybe they’ve missed the hundreds of podcast episode where the many leaders of our movement (because we don’t have a Foundation with one named leader) have referenced the brilliant work of Weston A. Price, recommended fermented cod liver oil, or told people to eat broth, pastured animal fats and organ meats. Sadly, this bubble I was hoping to be true was burst earlier this week when an e-mail exchange was shared through a public group to which I belong. Out of respect for those parties involved I won’t reveal the full exchange but a few parts stood out so glaringly to me and boiled my blood that I had to share.

Sally (paraphrased): If paleo is at all similar to a WAPF diet, the work we do needs to be supported and referenced, acknowledging debt to WAPF.

This one stood out to me as a bit hypocritical. Just a few days ago the Wise Traditions article said we didn’t have anything in common at all. And now what is being asked for is acknowledgement? I began to sense a bit of frustration, perhaps that paleo as a movement has had such success without bringing WAPF along with it? Could this, perhaps, be a marketing strategy motivated by attention-seeking behavior? Then it was made very clear to me that it was.

Sally (paraphrased): If the paleo community believes in animal fats, then they need to have a website saying so, they need to get their act together and put out a big press release declaring their love for fatty cuts and organ meats. Then we could join forces.

Sally (quote): I am deliberately stirring the pot here, to force the community to have a conversation on this–to get together and make sure that their message is consistent on this point.

So I get to be insulted. Told I’m a bad parent. Emotionally stressed all week over this ridiculous debacle charging through our communities because WAPF wants some site traffic and attention? Apparently, the WAPF knows full well that MANY websites and leaders advocate these things but wants our alliance broadcasted?

First of all, we aren’t a singular body that makes unilateral decisions. We are a group of intellectuals who critically think and develop our ideas and concepts over time as we learn and grow. As far as I’m aware, WAPF hasn’t re-looked at their approach, other than to create studies which support it’s own beliefs, since Weston A. Price’s passing.

Second, those leaders of our movements already have shared this information. It’s the reason many individuals have signed up for membership with WAPF, because our leaders encourage them to do so. Even Laura from Ancestralize Me, a leader in both our movements, blogged about this!


Third, there are a TON of websites already advocating these ideas. I encourage you to check out BalancedBites, CaveGirlEats, ThePaleoMom, PrimalPalate, Chris Kresser and our own site and podcast (among MANY more) for more information and recipes that align with WAPF-beliefs, if you are seeking to find them.

Why this letter to you? What do I hope to gain? Well, I hope that you will see how close-minded and factually incorrect your article was. After all, even Dr. Deborah has acknowledged this. Such inaccuracies and accusations garner a retraction and apology for those of us who have been offended by the publication. Specifically, the paragraph on children that specifies “the biggest concern” being paleo parenting is unacceptable; this is the root of my hurt, disappointment and frustration. I have already responded to that specifically here.

I also write this letter to let you know that if stirring the pot is your goal and it is attention you seek, henceforth you will NOT get it from me. I will no longer encourage our podcast listeners, blog traffic and social media audience to your foundation and the otherwise wonderful work you do. I will not be attending the conference. I will not be supporting the organization in any way if these are the intentions of it’s leaders.

I attach this letter to our podcast because it contains my personal thoughts on this travesty, to which I hope you will listen. The only way forward, that I can see, is to help this ancestrally-based community come together once again by:

  1. Issue a public apology through WAPF’s site or in the Wise Traditions publication for the offensive and in-factual data provided in this month’s article.
  2. Work with WAPF’s President and divisive leaders to step-forward into the future and see that our forces combined are more powerful than this approach, that members will be lost from your own organization if expectations of press releases and declarations is not seen as unreasonable and unrealistic, since we are not an organization like your own.

Until then, I BEG people within the paleo movement to stop visiting the WAPF website and trafficking the blogs of people who seek out attention through controversial “pot stirring” posts. Let’s not play their games.

Please note, I normally would have linked to specific blog posts on the referenced articles. But I’m making an effort to reduce site traffic, since I wholeheartedly do not want to support the intentions of those leaders.


Now on to the podcast!

 To listen to part-one of the series, check out episode 48.

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The Paleo View (TPV), Episode 49: Paleo Philosophy – Part 2

  • 0:00 – Introduction
  • 1:19 – News & Views
    • Canada has been good for Sarah, but she doesn’t feel like she has been enjoying it much – her relatives are playing with the kids while she works on editing
    • Sarah feels like she is missing out, but she knows that the book has to go to print
    • Sarah’s girls are spending great time with their relatives that they haven’t seen in awhile, so it is good
    • In the midst of editing, Sarah wrote a rebuttal to an article that appeared in Wise Traditions, Weston A. Price Foundation newsletter, where there was a lot of misinformation and criticism on parents who are raising their kids paleo
    • There were several bloggers talking behind the scenes when the newsletter went live because many folks felt personally insulted
    • Diane from Balanced Bites dedicated a podcast in response to this newsletter as well
    • There are so many similarities between the paleo and Weston A. Price community, so it was very disappointing to see the Weston A. Price Foundation strike a divide between the communities and to attack and put many myths forward
    • It is overall uncool to be divisive like that, it doesn’t help the community or foster growth at all
    • When you are a guiding voice within a community you have a responsibility to be a mature voice, to do your research fully and to present factual information
    • Every leader in the paleo community has there own way that they put forth information on how to create a healthy, sustainable lifestyle, and at the core of all these messages is ‘figure out what works for you – strike your own balance’
    • Stacy points out that through education her kid’s are able to define what their own splurges are and how to develop their personal balance so they are able to enjoy life in a way that still supports their health
    • If the argument is that paleo kids are so deprived, what part of a Weston A. Price Foundation diet isn’t also depriving these children – if you have to sprout your grains, eat only raw dairy, where are you finding that in schools?
    • For Stacy the article was infuriating and upsetting because an article like this doesn’t help anyone, it only stimulates misconceptions
    • Sarah notes that since there are so many similarities between Weston A. Price and paleo, you think that we could combine our resources to educate instead of trying to show some level of superiority – you could reach so many more people if we were to work together with a focus on nutrient density
    • The Weston A. Price Foundation seems to be determined to separate out from the paleo movement, and it isn’t clear why any organization would want to go against something that is supporting the same key principles
    • Sarah finds it infuriating that her mission to raise her children in a healthy way, where they don’t feel like they are different or missing out on something, makes her a bad parent – being told that Sarah is in the wrong for feeding her daughters in a way that supports their health was like a punch in the stomach
    • Stacy points out that this is not the first time that the paleo community has experienced this attitude from the Weston A. Price Foundation, however, this has been the most blatant attack that they have ever distributed
    • While Amy Kubal was promised for this week’s show, we need to wait for the Ancestral Health Symposium to come to a wrap and will feature Amy at that time
    • This week, Sarah and Stacy will be moving right into part-two of the Paleo Philosophy discussion, as last week’s show received such a great response
  • 24:51 – Paleo Philosophy Part-2
    • If you haven’t listened to episode 48 yet, go back and listen to that show to help set the stage for where the discussion is at in this show
    • Fat
      • One of the Weston A. Price’s criticism was that we don’t eat fat, we only eat lean meats and low omega-6 plant fats, like coconut oil or olive oil
      • Stacy wrote a book about lard, so Stacy’s feelings towards fat are pretty clear
      • Even for someone without a gallbladder, like Stacy’s situation, consuming monounsaturated fats is easier on the body than if it was a polyunsaturated fat – Stacy finds it easier to digest the fats that are saturated and monounsaturated because her body doesn’t have to work as hard to break them down
      • Sarah provided a scientific overview on the difference between the three kinds of fats and how they impact your body
      • Stacy went from being a coconut oil, broccoli and chicken paleo person to a lard/tallow paleo person, which is when she got into nutrient density because she learned that she wasn’t properly absorbing food
      • When Diana Rodgers was on the show Stacy learned a ton about how she should be supplementing and eating to absorb nutrients
      • Not only is the paleo community interested in eating the fats of healthy animals, the paleo community encourages people to find what works for them to make them feel their best
      • Sarah feels that there are more folks who do low-carb and high-fat, as opposed to a low-fat approach
      • Sarah notes that there is still so much misinformation about the impact of fat on our health – people are still really scared of eating fat
      • When Sarah was doing the research for The Paleo Approach, she found that the most important micronutrients that people are deficient in that are strongly linked to autoimmune diseases are fat-soluble vitamins, and that comes from us not eating enough fat and from eating the wrong kinds of fats
      • If anyone listening to The Paleo View is afraid to eat fat, don’t be – go eat some lard
    • (39:20) Dairy
      • On the autoimmune show with Mickey Stacy mentioned that she had reincorporated dairy fat successfully, which is really exciting since Stacy has had an issue with dairy her entire life
      • By healing her body through the autoimmune protocol and a nutrient dense approach to eating, Stacy has been able to successfully introduce dairy into her diet
      • While Stacy still believes that it is somewhat unnatural to eat the breastmilk of other animals, she has also read Practical Paleo and researched Weston A Price and knows how nutrient dense grass-fed dairy is, and if Stacy is able to tolerate dairy it can be a nutrient dense food for her
      • When Stacy started incorporating grass-fed butter and grass-fed heavy cream she saw improvements in her skin and joints and other things that use to experience negative effects from dairy
      • For Stacy her paleo philosophy on dairy has evolved a great deal since she started paleo, but she doesn’t think her family will ever be consuming high quantities of dairy since her kids are extremely sensitive to it
      • The Paleo Parents family walks a fine line to enjoy high-quality dairy products because it is a nutrient dense food, but they will not incorporate it at the sacrifice and health of their family
      • Stacy is at a new phase in her paleo journey when it comes to dairy and will continue to enjoy it in moderation since her body is tolerating it
      • Sarah notes that there is some research that suggests there are benefits to being cautious with dairy protein, however, dairy fat from grass-fed animals is a healthful fat that has an overwhelming nutrient value
      • Raw, whole milk from grass-fed cows has some great stuff in it, and science doesn’t stand firm on one side versus the other
      • This is why you see variation in how people approach this, people who identify as primal or lacto-paleo incorporate dairy into their lives in a way that works for them
      • Some people do really well with dairy, some people do really well without dairy – it is far more important to find what is working for you as an individual
      • As a paleo community we sometimes get really focused on the no-rules that we forget that some of these foods are potentially nutrient dense foods depending on your tolerances
      • As the paleo diet evolves and we learn more about how food effects our body, genes, proteins our body makes, etc. we are going to be able to narrow down what foods are beneficial and if that applies to some people, all people, etc.
      • Again, there is no right answer for the role that dairy plays in our diet, it is about finding what works for you
      • Beginning your paleo journey dairy free can be beneficial so you can do some elimination dieting to see if you tolerate it upon reintroduction
    • (52:30) Fruit & Sugar
      • For Stacy she avoids refined sugar, her kids have incredibly negative reactions to it
      • The Paleo Parents still enjoy treats, as them being defined just as that, treats
      • No matter what sugar you are talking about, Stacy would never define it as “paleo”
      • For blogging purposes treats are labeled as “paleo” so that folks can easily Google alternatives to refined sugar treats
      • Sarah’s family doesn’t eat much of the treats she prepares for recipe development, they either give them away or freeze them – they find a way to practice treating treats as just that, and practicing control and moderation
      • People get very passionate that we should eat exactly as a caveman ate, but that isn’t possible in today’s world – food simply isn’t the same as it was then
      • Sarah doesn’t think it is a healthy approach to food, to restrict foods that are very healthful foods just because they look like something unhealthy
      • To Stacy when we start to say no to things in absolute terms that are made with wholesome ingredients, we are getting into the topic of orthorexia, disordered eating, etc. – there is nothing wrong with eating coconut flour egg yolk crepes or something with a base of cauliflower with meat and vegetables on top
      • Define your paleo how you want to define your paleo, but don’t judge somebody else for what they chose to do, don’t tell them what they should or shouldn’t do
      • We will discuss sugar in greater detail in part-three, but the content will be broken up my other podcast topics
      • If you have specific topics that you would like us to cover in this series please send topics to the podcast question box
      • And if you are enjoying the show, please don’t forget to leave a review on iTunes!
  • 1:06:38 – Outro

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  • Susan G

    I have had so much trouble downloading the last few podcasts through iTunes. It always says, “Playback Failed” or “Error Downloading.” Any tips?

    • Susan if you’re not subscribed it would tell you that the first 24 hours or so after posting. Can you try to view in the iTunes podcast app through a subscription? I’m not sure how you download but that’s how I listen every week and it works (yes, I listen to my own podcast, lol).

    • Renee

      I had similar trouble this time and a few times in the past. Maybe it is the 24-hour problem. I was finally able to listen through Stitcher.

  • unlatched

    Thank you for bringing attention to the fact that Sally and the WAPF is anti anything that doesn’t agree with their agenda! I think it really discredits what an organization has to say when they immediately dismiss other points of views or studies. I also dislike the fact that they rely on controversial topics to help promote their agenda or to drive traffic to their sites.

  • Liz G.

    I have come to the conclusion that Sally is just upset she isn’t on top! Paleo is soaring in popularity, is helping to change the life of many people, many of which are children, and she is just upset she isn’t getting all the attention and glory for it… her own words make me come to this conclusion sadly 🙁 How terrible is that?

  • Liese

    When I first saw a post about this issue. I knew it was about ‘Them’ feeling jealous about Paleo/Primal/Ancestral living’s growing momentum.
    Sometimes it’s all about $$$ and supposed prestige.
    They want to be the’One True’ way of living.

  • Yikes. I think there are many similarities between Paleo and WAPF, but the differences are big enough to not want to associate with each other, I think. WAPF is big on raw dairy, animal fats, and properly prepared grains and legumes; Paleo is not famous for any of these. Paleo has become known as the “meat and vegetables” way of eating, even if healthy fats are definitely encouraged. But because Paleo so often excludes dairy, fruit, grains, and legumes, I can see where WAPF would not want to be associated with it because it IS quite different despite the commonalities.

    However, Paleo has many, many variations all over the internet from Cordain to Primal to Perfect Health Diet. But the most known Paleo plans and blogs are known to be heavily meat- and vegetable-based. I don’t think Paleo should try to merge with WAPF because their differences are too dramatic, IMO. I think they should be their own entities and let people decide for themselves or fuse the two or more or however many plans works for the individual. No one has to take sides, they’re both correct in different ways for different people. It’s ok for WAPF to criticize Paleo just as Paleo can criticize WAPF. They are never going to be on the same page and I don’t think they should be. If you do dairy and prepare grains and legumes, great. If not, no need to start a war. WAPF took its stance against being associated with Paleo even if they stereotyped it and are ignorant to certain things. But even if they retract their statement about Paleo being “low fat,” WAPF is still not going to be Paleo and vice versa. They have their views and Paleo has theirs. I think asking WAPF to change decades of rhetoric has about the same chance as PETA supporting animal-based Paleo. It’s not going to happen. They have drawn the line in the sand and that’s ok.

    • Liese

      Since when does Paleo eschew Fruit?! Now that is a Myth.
      Yes there are differences like the stance on Legumes, Grains and Dairy.

      • Some versions of “Paleo” say modern fruit is bad and should be avoided. Keep in mind, there is no ONE Paleo diet; there are countless variations!

    • I don’t think you read the article or the referenced rebuttal or listened to the podcast. No one is asking for anyone to change their beliefs, but rather apologize for insults and misinformation being published.

      • Did she make direct insults or were they generalized stereotypes that may have actually been directed at those who fit the description? She may be directing it towards those whom you don’t even know. The internet is a big place. There are people who practice very strict versions of Paleo, not the Primal + dairy versions or the butter and lard versions, but the traditional Cordain version with lean meats, olive oil, and vegetables. I think Mark Sisson with the Primal Blueprint really revolutionized Paleo Plus. Her analysis may be outmoded by popular blog standards, but not by the previous decades of traditional more strict Paleo protocols. I think it’s wrong for her to generalize, but just realize that there are people who fit this description. So she’s partially right. It’s probably just as wrong to feel that any one blogger or group of bloggers represents Paleo. There’s far too many interpretations for one person or one version to be correct. They’re all right to someone.

  • Milliann Johnson

    i am in no way defending Sally’s comments..this riff saddens me as I was led to her site after starting with Marksdailyapple & to many others like yours…they have all benefitted me and offered a whole host of info…but i do want to put one thought out there & that is about fat. If you look at the major media presentation of Paleo it looks more like South Beach…lean meat & veggies ck out Oz’s page from his Paleo show. It upset me to the point that I wrote to Mark & to George Bryant (Cilvalized Caveman) for clarification..cause my take was good fat is where its at & George gratiously responded with an affirmative. So the lack of proper promotion of fat in the Paleo lifestyle by the media may be has left the cog needing some grease…thank you guys for all you do..your children are beautiful & could be in the dictionary next to the word healthy………

    • Yes, and quite a few of us (specifically I remember Diane who SHOULD have been the guru on that show IMO) spoke out afterwords saying that we felt they missed the mark and picked the wrong presenters (both Loren and Nell had much lower ranked books at the time but seemingly were willing to share the agenda Oz wanted to spin) but were happy to get press for paleo regardless because eventually they’d find Mark, Diane, Robb and then the WAPF principals of paleo that were completely missed

  • Michele

    Stacy – I am so mad that I just renewed my WAPF membership a few weeks ago. I will not be renewing it next year. I will give that $100 to Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund instead.

    I had such a great day at Sally Fallon’s farm with you, Aimee and your kids and it is a huge disappointment that Sally Fallon has taken this position.

    I stopped reading another of the WAPF chapter leader blogs last year when this individual had a post that used a similar approach.

    Thank you for all of the stuff that you and your family are doing to promote Paleo in a positive way.

    • Thank you, and couldn’t agree more. Hope to see you at another event soon! ! I see sometimes you’re signed up but that life must take over 🙂 You got a copy of BB, right? We certainly owed you one for sharing your wonderful pictures with us

      • Michele Speidel

        Yes – I got BB and love it! I gave 4 copies away to my friends and they love it too. The Rosemary Carrot Mash is so yummy! I just re-packaged my pork skin into smaller portions so that I can try the Curried Cracklin’s.

        I am going to be at the Save Your Bacon weekend and it is going to be so much fun! Loved the passionate defense on the podcast – although you didn’t top Diane and Liz’s punching babies comments on the Balanced Bites podcast. It was an crazy analogy that had me laughing.

  • Summer Len Davis

    This is insanely frustrating. I don’t think I read anything after the whole “formula is better for babies if mom isn’t eating a traditional diet”. What the EXPLETIVE? OH. EM. GEE. Formula is NEVER, EVER better for babies. Or very, very rarely anyways. Far more rare than we are led to believe. I looked at the WAPF website long ago and found it so similar to Paleo that I didn’t delve any further in to it because I was already overburdened with information. My heavens. People like this are ridiculous. I hope you got it out of your system and don’t plan to waste any more of your precious energy on it.

    • Jessica

      Well, to be fair, they do specify their own, special homemade formula is better than breastmilk from moms eating a conventional diet. They have a hierarchy. Best is breastmilk from a mom eating a traditional diet, then their homemade formula, then breastmilk from a mom eating a conventional diet, then commercial formula. Their formula is made from a variety of very expensive and hard to obtain ingredients, and in some places straight up illegal. It’s really classist to tell the world they’ve got to make this insanely expensive, raw goats milk formula because their own milk isn’t good enough. That same article pedaled a bunch of BS about how many women can’t breastfeed. The institutionalized sexism in the whole post made me sick.

  • KerryAnn Foster @ Intentionall

    Unfortunately, this isn’t the first time this has happened. In my eleven plus years of interacting with the WAPF and in even being a former chapter leader, I have seen this exact behavior over two other subjects. It is sad because it doesn’t help anyone in the long run, it only creates deeper divisions. I no longer give the WAPF any credence or send any traffic to them through my blog, online cooking school, or any other venue I run.

    • joycetipping

      KerryAnn, your insider perspective is really interesting! Do you have any idea why the WAPF does this? That’s what confuses me so much — it seems like cooperation would be the obvious best strategy. What are they trying to achieve by being so strident? Has it worked in the past?

  • Jessica

    This makes me smile. There’s some valuable stuff from WAP, but there’s also a lot of racism, sexism, and classism in their org as well. I’m not a fan of WAP, but Paleo takes everything useful from WAP, combines it with actual current research, and leaves all that bigoted crap behind. Personally, I’m glad there isn’t an alliance between the two groups.

  • Abundantlyjoyful

    Beautiful response. Thank You! Not knowing Sally, her divisive comments, could those comments be a symptom of something else?

  • Heidi

    Wow, I have so many thoughts tumbling around my head about this. But mostly, why can’t they just see what WAPF and Paleo have in common rather than look at the (rather insignificant) differences?? It makes me wonder if she had an unfortunate run-in with someone from the Paleo community at some point.

  • Izzi

    Annoyed that you worried me on broth not being paleo just for political stuff I’m not interested in , but I appreciate your podcast a lot, just please don’t worry people for no reason x

    • I don’t understand. At what point did we say broth wasn’t paleo or anything of the sort?

  • Gary Collins

    Hi Stacy,

    I was also insulted by reading the WAPF journal and I wrote a similar post as yours in response to Sally’s “message.” I referenced your site in my post.

  • Rose

    Hearing the comments from the article makes my blood boil, those comments on raising children make me want to hit someone.

    When I first heard about the article I assumed that it was just wapf trying to separate themselves from paleo. I don’t have any paleo friends in the real world and anyone I know who has heard of paleo thinks it is the chicken breast and broccoli diet (high meat, low fat, low carb). People I know on the SAD have this idea that paleo is incredibly restrictive, controlling, fairly unhealthy, and vaguely disordered etc. so I can understand why the wapf would want to separate themselves from that. However seeing their true intent makes me want to hit someone even more, because I was going around doing exactly what they wanted: telling people that wapf and paleo are really similar, except wapf has a couple less restrictions. Therefore I am going to stop talking about it and go take out my anger on a treadmill

  • SteveH

    Thanks for posting this information. I’m afraid that where it comes to dishing out advice on how to eat, it is important that we do judge people based on appearances. They should either be in shape or have shown clear improvement. I’m happy to listen to people like Mark Sisson and Rob Wolff.

    The part about children is kind of amusing. My kids have been on a mostly primal / paleo diet for a year now. I reluctantly let them have a bit of a dairy, but strictly no grains and nothing whatsoever with (added) sugar. They are lean and athletic and are thriving mentally and physically.

    I actually lost weight the hard way, by portion control but still on grains and quite a lot of sugar. It was exhausting. After three years or so, I got onto low carb and then paleo. My waist line basically doesn’t waver. Contrary to a lot of nonsense that is around, I’ve gained 15 lbs of muscle on this diet. Yes, I work very hard in the gym. I have no idea how I’d go on a meager 10% of protein. That sounds like a diet for couch potatoes to me.

    Really appreciate your compiling the information. It’s such a shame. Fallon has made really important contributions; there’s just no need for that stuff.

  • joycetipping

    Thank you so very much for this article! I have been watching this drama unfold for the last few months with great frustration and confusion. I love Dr. Price’s book and I have been *this close* to giving my money to the WAPF on so many occasions, but this dispute kept bothering me. I wholeheartedly believed that it was just a misunderstanding, but a cynical little voice in my head kept saying, let’s make sure of that first, let’s see how this plays out. I’m heartbroken to receive confirmation that the whole thing is intentional. I’m just glad I’ve found my own footing in the Ancestral Health movement and don’t need the WAPF to hold my hand because, frankly, I don’t trust them anymore.